[Arid_gardener] "Square foot" question

Sun Nov 5 17:11:16 MST 2006

Please note an error in my statement below; Ammonium sulfate is 21-0-0 not 
16-0-0.  Ammonium phosphate is, however, 16-20-0. I rarely use it because I 
have percieved that Phosphorous is already abundant in our desert soils.

Dick Gross, Master Gardener Volunteer

Bcc: Arid Gardener List

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Gross" <rkgross3 at cox.net>
To: "file DickGross" <rkgross3 at cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Fw: [Arid_gardener] "Square foot" question

>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dick Gross" <rkgross3 at cox.net>
> To: "Nancy Parks" <nparks at aerialmapping.com>; 
> <arid_gardener at CALS.arizona.edu>; "Carolyn Stoffel" <rakena at basicisp.net>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Arid_gardener] "Square foot" question
>
>
>> Gosh, Carolyn, this is all too complicated and technical for me, but, 
>> most Arizona (desert) soils have virtually everything except organic 
>> compounds needed to grow most healthy plants. The Salt River Basin is a 
>> rich garden spot. Drive around the countryside and see fields lush with 
>> crops and orchards. If the farmers had to add all those amendments to 
>> make anything grow, a bale of hay would cost you a hundred bucks. Arid 
>> soils have a natural high alkalinity of about 8 because high evaporation 
>> concentrates the salts near or on the surface but the water has an 
>> alkalinity of about 8 also--making it nearly impossible to get the soil 
>> any lower for any reasonable period of time. Organic material and gypsum 
>> help to prevent salt accumulation that can only be kept under control at 
>> a level we can live with by continually flushing salts out of the root 
>> zone.
>>
>> Peat is okay. I have never heard of the drying out problem that doesn't 
>> make much sense to me. It will help retain moisture and open up the soil 
>> but will never be drier than the soil housing it. I believe it is slow to 
>> decompose On the surface, it would function as well as any other mulch to 
>> reduce evaporation and the idea that it can't be rehydrated sounds a 
>> little silly.
>>
>> My own yard looks like the Amazon but the only fertilizer I use is 
>> 16-0-0, Ammonium Sulphate. The sulfur helps to offset alkaline compounds 
>> but I can't evaluate just how much. This formula is readily soluble. I 
>> often mix 1/4th teaspoon of it per gallon every time I water in small 
>> raised beds and especially in pots for constant feeding. Seems to do the 
>> job for me. I have used Miracle Grow the same way but, if the advanced 
>> formula helped growth beyond the 16-0-0, my eye was not able to detect 
>> it. In the Subtropical Demonstration garden at the Cooperative Extension, 
>> I have only used 16-0-0 as well to fertilize. I would not want that 
>> forest to grow any better nor faster because I am already overwhelmed 
>> with pruning.
>>
>> Our soil has adequate phosphorous not very available to the plant in 
>> alkaline soils, I've been led to believe. I  use Amonium Phosphate , 
>> 16-20-0 (in the soil-not on it), rarely for root and fruit crops  but, 
>> again, do it to satisfy a superstition rather than any scientific 
>> awareness that it is needed. Horse manure that may be loaded with weed 
>> seeds should be well composted before using. Chicken manure has the urine 
>> mixed in with it and should be aged before used directly on crops. Fresh 
>> chicken has a too-high nitrogen content.
>>
>> Worm castings is manure probably much more completely composted than 
>> animal wastes and is more effective but more expensive because there is 
>> less of it. But, any manure is nothing more than decomposed organic 
>> compounds composted in the gut exiting with the same elements it had 
>> going in but in chemical forms that soil micro-organisms can chow down on 
>> and, in their guts, reduce the mass to chemical compounds that microbial 
>> organisms can spoonfeed to plant root hairs.  Cow and horse is poorly 
>> decomposed after going through their guts and, especially in horse, weed 
>> seeds may go through untarnished and ready to sprout.
>>
>> Contrary and/or supporting opinions civilly offered are welcome that I 
>> may learn from you.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Carolyn Stoffel" <rakena at basicisp.net>
>> To: <arid_gardener at CALS.arizona.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 1:42 PM
>> Subject: [Arid_gardener] "Square foot" question
>>
>>
>>> I've done some reading about "square foot gardening" (not the book, 
>>> though) and recently purchased peat moss, vermiculite, and several kinds 
>>> of compost but haven't opened any of it.
>>>
>>> At the recent Fall Festival (Hi, Olin; Hi, Dick) a couple of the Master 
>>> Gardeners recommended against the peat moss on the basis that when it 
>>> dries out, it stays dry. They suggested pumice instead. However, the 
>>> pots I saw with pumice had very little, so I'm trying to figure out what 
>>> to use instead of peat moss for the necessary(?) bulk.
>>>
>>> I did buy a bag of pumice and one of worm castings at the Festival but I 
>>> was planning to add those in much smaller quantities - perhaps a cup of 
>>> each to a couple of scoops - each - of the vermiculite and compost.
>>>
>>> I have a couple of cut-down Phoenix garbage cans (look more like horse 
>>> feeders than composters) that I was going to use initially, which will 
>>> be considerably deeper than the square foot recommendation, but I wanted 
>>> something I could plant now.
>>>
>>> I have a small jar of old ranunculus seed that I'll just scatter thickly 
>>> (rather than spacing out) in one. The seed is so old and wasn't stored 
>>> properly, so it may not germinate at all. I also have ranunculus and 
>>> gladioulus bulbs, quite old and poorly stored, so I'll plant them with a 
>>> minimum of fussing - if they come up, fine.
>>>
>>> I'll have to consult some of the handouts I picked up at the Festival. I 
>>> know I have gazania (old), zinnia (fresh), four o'clocks (old), Santa 
>>> Claus melons (fresh, from a melon), jojoba (uhhhh.... no place for 
>>> those), Shirley poppies (old), and spaghetti squash (old). Oh, and 
>>> jicama (old).
>>>
>>> And the onions (two Egyptian walking onions) and the multiplying onion I 
>>> bought at the Festival. The latter is not looking well at all. I'm 
>>> feeling very black-thumbed at the moment.
>>>
>>> There are other things I'd like to try but I have a tendency to bite off 
>>> more than I can chew, then quit, so I'm trying to start small.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
>>>
>>> Carolyn Stoffel
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Arid_gardener mailing list
>>> Arid_gardener at CALS.arizona.edu
>>> http://CALS.arizona.edu/mailman2/listinfo/arid_gardener
>>>
>>
> 